Posted by: darr | 30/09/2008

Twenty

It’s been a long time since I sat down and just wrote a rant beginning FUCK at the laptop and meant it.

FUCK, but I’m strangely affected by Twenty’s departure. It’s not so much the fact he stopped (I can understand the reasons) but it’s what he wrote about the Irish blogging scene that made me stop and think.

His exact quote (the emphasis/formatting is mine) was

As well as that I think Irish blogging has changed a lot and I find it very difficult to identify with many of these blogs. They have their own style, and that’s all well and good, but I just don’t think I have anything in common with them. I know that might seem irrelevant but when you have other blogs to spark off, like there were back in the day, then it does make a difference. Of course my blog stands on its own two feet, it always has done and could continue to do so, but I just feel a bit detached from it all. And it’s not that I was ever in it to make friends or be part of a big community. It’s still not a motivation for me despite meeting some top people down the years. Maybe I’m not explaining this well enough but it’s more a vague feeling than anything concrete.

For me the vibrancy and excitement of the scene is gone. I’m not suggesting it was better back then, just better for me. There are those that are new to blogging now that are probably experiencing all that vibrancy now and good luck to them. Anyway, whatever it is it’s a very small part of why I’m shutting up shop.

For some reason this makes me particularly sad. Sad that some of the people reading his blog may be put off now, as it doesn’t seem like fun; sad that his and other people’s experiences have a negative taint to them and sad that he chose to stop without giving some pointers and saying “Why don’t you…?” I can understand how he’s tired after four years in exactly the same way I understood Mulley’s Get out and Push post/challenge but, fuck it, what now?

Even now I can hear Darren saying something akin to “Doyle, you’re a sap. He was only one guy, who didn’t really get “involved” and who made his readership from being a bitter, moany bastard at times” but it makes no difference. I think the thing about this blogging lark for me is to do with the connections we make – whether it’s making someone smile, touching a nerve, making new friends at the pub, going to events or barcamps or dinner or whatever, it’s become a way of cutting through the space and communicating who you are to someone. AJ from Le Craic left a great comment on my blog recently commenting how

It could be argued that blogs are the equivalent to “paper on the wall”, albeit expressed in a more eloquent way. Blogs are basically the answer to this question:

“What do people do when they feel they’re not being listened to? Where can they go? How do they share their stories? What of those that we never hear?”

and that’s something that stayed with me. I’m trying to understand the medium, to grasp just some side of the boat that I can hang on to, to think “yep, this is me, here I am” and be happy with that. My idea of success is measured by the inspiration I get from other people.

I hate the fact that we were brought up in a society where it seemed churlish to talk about and celebrate our successes, where we don’t acknowledge that sometimes we’re all fucking fantastic, funny, creative and witty people, where we feel it’s better to be reticent, to feign ignorance of the work we’ve put into it, the way we craft the words we put down on screen and hope it connects with someone. We all do it, whether it’s hoping someone out there feels the same, or looks at it and thinks “nice one” and all the bits in between. I hate the begrudgery, the hesitation in celebrating other successes and motives questioned when we do. Some people aren’t just after something. Some people like what other people do. I hate the fact this has spilled with such force into blogging as well. It’s through my blogging that I try to escape it each and every time.

Nothing’s perfect – I understand that. I’m neither naive nor stupid enough to think that there’s a nirvana here, a middle ground that everyone will be happy with because that’s just not human nature. I feel somewhat like this guy. However, whether you believe it or not, the universe has rules it operates on and it’s the people who seek to give something back that tend to be the more content ones.

If I do nothing else, I’d love to show just what blogs can do to people like my parents who see that someone being in a newspaper, on the radio or the holy grail of the TV means that their story must be somehow more important than others. That just because someone’s chosen to share your story on that medium makes it more important than what your child said, what your test results are or what inspires you.

I mean, Twenty was probably the one of the best examples of that out there – someone who took a character, a style of communication, a bleak view of people and Dublin mixed in with an irascible sense of humour and made it concrete. Got two books out of it. Won awards. Appeared on Beaut.ie. Okay, so there’s degrees of success but to someone like me who’s looking at doing this as a career, that’s fairly damn impressive. The other one I always point people to is Fiona McPhillip’s MakingBabies. Another brilliant example. And you know me, I could go on.

I feel blessed/lucky/privileged and all that stuff to be born in a time where it’s realised that everyone has a story and more and more we get to hear them. We’re heading towards a time where it’s not about what you do now, but your story of who you are and how you came to be here. It’s not about taking something “too seriously”, it’s about seeing what’s possible, what could be done and trying your best to do it.

I don’t want Twenty’s departure to seem to any newcomers as a signal of either an end or a change in Irish blogging. I’ve been reading blogs for at least four years now and personally (and professionally) I’ve never seen as great a time to get involved, to be part of it, to contribute and to have your voice heard, or, as has happened with me, to make some really good friends. The more we do this – the more we write, the more we comment, the more we share knowledge, ideas, guidance, counsel and what makes us smile, the more we cut through all the other things that seperate us and so we become closer. And that’s not a bad thing at all, is it?

Fine, I’m a sap for getting this worked up by something so – in the long term – pointless, but god damn it, this is my Liverpool, it’s my Star Wars and my X Factor. It’s my equivalent to a soap death. Something is still wrong on the internet and I can’t do anything about it. Fuck.

Darren, you’re thinking a pint would solve this, aren’t you? What do the other Blogpounders and commenters think? Is the Irish blogging scene boring? Is it just, as I’ve read elsewhere, a “mass circle-jerk” or does it have something more to give? Does it interest you? Could it do more? Would really appreciate other opinions on this!


Responses

  1. Ach, arsewankfuck! I burned the dinner writing this comment, then I lost it because I cleared my cache trying to get on to Twenty’s forum and hadn’t filled in my details again. Raa!

    So the gist of my post, was, Don’t mind Great Uncle Twenty, he’s only a crankypants.

    So connection and friendship isn’t what he wanted out of blogging, lots of people do – nothing’s the same when people all get to know each other. It’s fair enough that he’s jaded, like the guy in ItchyandScratchy world hosting New Year’s eve every twenty minutes. There’s always going to be fresh, enthusiastic blood starting up to sing along.

  2. “sad that he chose to stop without giving some pointers and saying “Why don’t you…?””

    Um, why? Because the act of blogging made him somehow beholden to other bloggers?

    As I see it, the more we do this, the more varied our reasons for doing this become, the more people splinter off, take hiatuses, quit etc. Nothing wrong with that. Not everyone will be in it to “give back” or to meet new people. Nothing wrong with that either.

  3. I was surprised to read that he had decided to give it up, but I understand.

    The world goes on though, and blogging will too. I always liked his blog, but I could count the number of times I commented on one hand because at times it did feel a little like a circle jerk!!!

    The blogger in me will miss going to his blog at moments when I’m staring at the screen wondering what to write, the skeptic in me thinks he now has a great career ahead of him because of his blog, which is probably what he planned all along. And if that’s the case, fair play.

    On the other side of things, maybe it’s best for his reputation as a quality writer to bow out at a time when he feels he should instead of getting completely bored with the whole thing and writing shite just for the sake of updating his page.

    If he’d had done that, we wouldn’t be as knocked back as we are now, don’t you think?

  4. Thanks for the comment people, I realise I ranted too much about it, but such is the cathartic effect of blogging.

    @Jo – Sorry about the dinner! I agree about the new blood, it’s just disappointing there’s not enough here to keep the old blood happy. I have a fear of getting jaded I suppose.

    @Catherine – thanks for the comment, and yes, you’re right. There is nothing wrong with it. It is however far too easy to point at something and say “bad” or “broken” and not do anything to fix it. One is never “beholden” to, but the effort someone puts in is always appreciated, no? I’d have listened to Twenty’s advice – the attention he’s commanded is deserved. Not sure what he could have said, though. Keep at it? meh. I suppose I didn’t really think it through enough.

    @Maxi – I think I’m addressing someone who could be as successful, you funny bastard. I do hope he does well out of it, whatever his career goals and I’m glad he didn’t go down the other route. In fairness that’s where I’ve started and am trying to claw my way up from ;o)

    Thanks again all.

  5. But Twenty’s not saying that Irish blogs have gone bad, he’s saying they’ve lost vibrancy for him. Nothing to fix there, the guy’s entitled to his opinion.

  6. Again Catherine you’re right – I should be more careful with my words.

    His comment that got me was the change in blogs and how he finds it difficult to identify with them. I suppose I’d kinda like to know what sort of blog someone like him would identify with and what that change has been. Have something been lost, gained or just changed?

    I’m not at all looking at this from the perspective that Twenty’s in any way wrong because I don’t see how he could be, I’m more concerned people who don’t blog might think there is something to be concerned about. Does that make any sense?

    Twenty said ” the vibrancy and excitement of the scene is gone” yes, for him, but he freely admits that the community or friendship was never a motivation for him, which is grand. As you say, everyone has varied reasons. But it would also be great for other people to become involved, whatever their motives.

    The scene in London seems quite different to me. I know a lot of people over there, see things like the Twestival and other social entrepreneurial events and projects happening and wish we did more things like that here. It’s great to see (and attend) events like the Bar and Creative Camps and to see projects like your own happening. This for me is the “community” and it’s one I’d hope people would feel welcome to be a part of.

    I guess I just feel that the blogging “community” /scene here – knowing how many great people contribute to it – is an easy target and it gets my back up to see people who don’t seem to want to be part of it still try to knock it down or take cheap shots. It’s ridiculous to have such a passion, I know, but the benefits far outweigh the potential for personal embarrassment, something I’m far too prone to these days anyway.

    I’m not at all disagreeing with you, I just think I’m not making my main point clear.

  7. Clawing you way up? Surely not.

  8. Yeah, it might be useful to hear from Twenty on what he feels has changed. But it might not. He’s an influential blogger to some, sure, but he’s just one blogger. Do you think you’d change your MO based on his feedback alone? I’m not sure I would, much as I liked his blog.

    I do think blogging has contributed to some interesting real-life social interaction, yes – although I think the scene you mention in London is just one tiny part of a huge (and splintered) blogosphere. I can’t see the Oyebillys and Slaminskys – who are great bloggers – at a Twestival-type event. Similarly, the BarCamp/CreativeCamp type events here only attract a small proportion of Irish bloggers, as do the fashion blogger lunches, the photowalks, the foodie meetups…

    You mentioned the book project. It does have the potential to take a great snapshot of Irish blogging as it is right now, but I’d value a submission from a blogger who’s not popped their head up in comments or links on other blogs – for whatever reason – as much as I would a submission from a well-known blogger.

    This blogging thing is getting bigger and bigger in Ireland – and “community” is going to come to mean different things to different bloggers, and nothing at all to some.

    And there’s nothing wrong with passion – but I do think it’s important to realise that the thing you’re passionate about is changing, and fast.

  9. Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are. The wheel of change moves on, and those who were down go up and those who were up go down.

    But then again I suppose all change is not growth, as all movement is not forward. But fundamentally, things do not change; we change.

    Ronaldo was once the best player in the world with a model wife. Now he’s a fat bald man without a club who ends up in motels with ladyboys. Shit happens. Change happens. We move on.

  10. Ah Catherine, you keep on coming back stronger and stronger. I’m glad we’re not in a live TV debate – you’d be kicking my ass!

    I’m afraid I don’t know (of) Oyebilly and Slaminsky – I tend to be a click the link in front of me person. I’m going to look them up on your recommendation though, and yes, I doubt very much that the London blogosphere has the ability to embrace everyone, same as our own.

    Wouldn’t it be great though if, whether people felt they could participate fully or not, there was a concrete benefit from all the work put into blogging? That all the knowledge shared, the ideas explored and the creativity harnessed in some way? Not as an aggregator like IrishBlogs, not just a collection of fluffy/red/hairy/fibreglass/boredom/fluffer links, but a useful collection of posts, be it recipes, photos, how-tos, jokes or whatever. Projects that people were involved in, causes that people needed help in. A community noticeboard if you will.

    You’re right though in that “community” means different things to different people and I suppose it’s what I’m trying to understand too, both how I can contribute to it and benefit from it. Blogging *is* changing, it’s becoming more mainstream, more accepted, more professional and I’m scrambling to keep up.

    It was pointed out to me in no uncertain terms that this whole topic wasn’t really interesting. It shouldn’t have been about Twenty, he just sparked the rant that had been brewing in my mind. As I said, this just put my thoughts down and allowed me to get feedback from people who mightn’t have commented otherwise. I’m grateful for your advice and feedback Catherine. You’ve really made me think about things in a different way.

  11. @NaRocRoc – well said. I’m just trying to understand that change, in the hope that it’s a good thing.

  12. “I hate the fact that we were brought up in a society where it seemed churlish to talk about and celebrate our successes, where we don’t acknowledge that sometimes we’re all fucking fantastic, funny, creative and witty people”
    Why is it I so regularly proclaim my greatness then?

    I regularly mention my weekend spammy posts bear no importance whatsoever and are mainly to stop me from stopping by continuing.

    Possibly the biggest problem(and strength) of Irish blogging is this community thing though. Even if he didn’t physically participate in much of a community or whatever, he was pretty much in the centre without any real choice.

    I’m sad to see him go but perhaps this might shake things up… perhaps.

  13. Catherine would kick most of our asses at most things Darragh :)

    I’m with B’dum. Strangely he was at the centre even though he participated in the community aspect of it fragmentarily, if at all.

    I think it’s an important passing even though I read him infrequently. I agree too, people splinter off, take a break, quit, or start little projects like here when they seek something new.

    I like it that you chose here to write this one.

  14. I have been at this game for less than two years, but I have noticed a change in the Irish Blogging scene. Possibly [and I have no insight into Twenty's reasons] what he was referring to was that for the first two years or so, the Irish community was pretty small, and that the sense of belonging was very strong.

    In the last year or so, the blogging scene has grown considerably, and the community has fragmented somewhat. I find now that there are a lot of ’sub-communities’ growing where various groups blog together and comment on one anothers posts.

    I’m not for a moment saying that that is a bad thing, but there is less of a feeling of ‘the village pump’ community about it.

    Maybe I’m wrong? I don’t know. I think I’ll go to bed…….

  15. Not at all Grandad, maybe there are just more village pumps now that the irrigation is getting better?

    The King is dead, long live the King… Now there’s strong words ;)

  16. I think you’re right Grandad. I don’t view as many blogs as some people do, but there’s just so bloody many of them, with more popping up every day. Some good, some shite.

    I do read and comment on the same blogs all the time, and the same people comment on mine, I think all of us are in the same boat in that respect. I try to “discover” a new blog at least once a fortnight, that way I stand a better chance of keeping up to date with it.

  17. What a negative, arrogant and selfish blog post coat-tailing on somebody else’s work.

  18. For me the great pity about Twenty Major quitting blogging is that so many other people are writing about it. The guy had an audience for sure but let’s remember that blogging is a medium and there are millions of other blogs out there and whether they are Irish or not shouldn’t be such a major factor.
    The Slugger Awards are on soon and I would bet on Three Thousand Versts picking up the best blog award. For me Chekov is consistently producing the best blog output but his blog and Twenty Major’s are chalk and cheese. I know that Twenty Major’s fans are sad to see him go but I don’t think that it’s the end of an era for blogging.

  19. Wow, some great responses so far!

    @B’dum – maybe it’s an age/maturity/confidence thing? As in, the younger you are the less of the societal burden you’re familiar with. More likely though it’s just me. I’d be someone who’d find it difficult to say I was good at anything. Plus, your weekend posts aren’t spammy – I always check them out to see what you’re up to.

    I keep coming back to a lovely quote over on Infantasia where a 5 year old succinctly put blogging as “you put all the things you make that you like on your blog, and the things that other people make that you like. That’s what a blog is for.’ and, indeed, that’s a pretty cool way of viewing it. Blogs are things you like, a newspaper about you, a form of release, a way to communicate.

    I found this post two nights ago and it’s become one of my favourites. That is the post I wish i’d written instead.

    Twenty was a great blogger and from any dealing I had with him a nice guy. I do wish him well but hope that people will still get involved.

    @SL – The ass kicking was necessary and a few lessons learned – using theblogpound as a sounding board was a choice to get views from many different people. I knew I was wrong about some things writing it, that’s why I was careful to call it a rant.

    @Grandad – thanks for the comment and the unique view. The change you’re describing sounds right. I mean, I’m only blogging since March and in many ways still see myself as a beginner. The community aspect is what appeals to me most – the way that something so simple provides a common ground to share, communicate and, like Catherine’s project for one, do some good. I’m just trying to see what my contribution, if any, could be.

    @SL – monarchy vs democracy, eh? ;-)

    @Maxi – I think you have the right approach. I’m glad to have found the things I have. The more I read though, the less I blog. It’s a teufelkreuz. Still, the quality of some blogs I find is just stunning.

    @Damien – thanks for the comment. Rants generally are all of the above. I think the comments say it better than the post did. The reason I posted at all was to lose my own negativity.

    @Aidan – welcome and thanks. I think this goes back to the small community idea, where there were only a few blogs to read and some of those regarded as better than others. I don’t read or know of enough non-Irish blogs, and perhaps I should start to get a better, bigger picture.

    For example – I’ve never heard of the Slugger Awards or Three Thousand Vests or Chekov. Off to Google I go!

    I’ve learned over the last few days that I’ve been looking at this through a few pairs of rose tinted glasses. Maybe I should delete my Google reader and start again.

    I should also (have) point(ed) out that this was purely my take on it after not very much thinking. It may well have been better as a conversation over a pint, but I never meant it to say “this is how it is” rather just “this is how I’m thinking”.

  20. I think the comments say it better than the post did.

    All the comments have shown is that you have agreed with every single differing opinion.

  21. @Damien – I don’t see how I can do anything else though. I find that it’s the personal opinions that contributed to the discussion that help me see things a lot more clearly. The overwhelming uniting theme I got from all comments is that “things change”.

  22. Mulley in confrontational mode shocker. I can just see it now in tomorrow’s papers.

    So what if Darragh is looking for answers? It provokes discussion about blogging. And better still about the incestuous, back-slapping nature of Irish blogging and that, in my book at least, is no bad thing.

  23. To be honest NaRocRoc, I think you are missing the point.

  24. @Alexia. Thanks for the comment. Can I ask what you think the point is?

  25. @ Alexia, really? I’m not sure I am but, please, do elaborate.

  26. Would a pint solve it? Hmm! I don’t think there’s anything to solve. Some people seem to want to define the Irish Blogosphere, to fit it neatly into a box (and you’ve been guilty of it before in conversation). Some try to look at it like a physical entity that is broken and in need of fixing, defining, moulding and labelling.

    The great thing about blogs is that they defy labelling. From day to day a single blog can be a personal ranting space, a political commentary, a photo gallery, a place to advertise a service, a meeting point for the masses. There is no right, no wrong and nothing to solve.

    In addition, your post is not negative, arrogant or selfish. And I doubt Mr Mulley truly believes his assertion. As for coat-tailing – that’s just semantics. Being inspired by a popular and influential blogger’s parting words, to write your own views of the current situation as you see it, is not coat-tailing. It is a reactionary opinion and while I don’t happen to agree with everything you said, I don’t see it as arrogant or selfish.

    You say that “things change”. It’s more than that – the Irish Blogging scene is in a constant state of flux and this is definitely a good thing. It’s what helps it to thrive.

    (Incidentally, fancy a pint?)

  27. @Darren – guilty as charged. I think that’s been my issue all along and as most of the commenter have said, things change and the whole thing has just been “wrong” in my head for a long while. I think I’m just starting to be able to seperate participation from involvement, if that makes sense.

    My post was a rant, a personal opinion and a knee-jerk and I am, genuinely looking for opinions not so much on Twenty as the Irish blogging scene. It’s only through this conversation that I can learn.

    Definitely need a pint.

  28. Ok I held off commenting on this blog for obvious reasons but feel I should. As many of you know I wrote on forninepounds and only recently I too decided to call it a day, little did I know I would kill fornine as it stood and its great to see its new incarnation here.

    In my “I am leaving post” I attempted to say what was going through my mind and why I wanted to leave, weird thing is I struggled to explain what it was that i felt was pushing me away from the blog, and yes I felt pushed!

    Twenty in my opinion hit the nail on the head with his post, he explained exactly what was going on in my mind. I mentioned that the blog had changed, it had totally, the thing is, and what I had not said cause I was blinkered to it, was that it was not just 49pounds that had changed but blogging in Ireland had!

    Grandads comment should be taken very seriously I have personally been blogging for nearly 4 years now, I have been to all of Damiens Irish blog awards (which is the best spot to feel that community) and yes what started as a small community has grown at an alarming rate over the past 2 years, ask Mulley, look at the blog awards and how big they have become etc.

    Now this is not a bad thing, but personally to go back to me being pushed, the community aint what it was not just on 49pounds which did lose all sense of community, but in general, I know for a fact with me, I dont feel a part of it as much as 2 years ago when my own webpage was in its infancy. This has nothing to do with ego or anything but what myself, Ails and Idiot said at a family meet up last week, was that for us it has to do with age now, we all felt old, fair enough Ails was but had never felt that way there until close to the end.

    I could go on but I reckon I would fuck up my head again that twenty has just clensed so there you go that’s my feeling on the whole thing, and as I say personally I thank twenty for the hard work he put into that blog for the past 4 years but his final post is the one that will mean the most to me!

    Darragh as rants go this was great but your last response to mulley suprises me, you of all people been heavily involved in irish blogging Id have thought would have seen this change that has happened which seems to be a revelation to you, that shocked me.

  29. @McaWilliams – thanks for a great comment. I should point out in response to your last point that I’ve only really been blogging and involved in Irish blogging since the Blog Awards of this year – 7 months ago – and so this “change” that people who have been blogging about for much longer see is new to me. Like Darren said, I’m guilty of over-analysing, of trying to compartmentalize it and, the way it turned out, this was the way I expressed my questions.

    The “community” aspect of it all is the one that most excites and involves me. I understand what you mean by the Blog Awards being the best spot to feel it but I look around at all the bar-, pod- and creative-camps, the tweet ups, meet ups and the general level of support that’s there and I wonder what’s the best way to make use of it, or if, indeed (as it seems) I should be leaving well enough alone and looking at something else entirely. I’m almost embarrassed by this post now, but it’s shown me a lot of opinions I wouldn’t have had access to otherwise and that can’t be a bad thing, can it?

  30. Being completely new to the blogging scene, I was a bit wary of commenting on this topic.

    I think everything changes. Everything must change, otherwise it stagnates and dies.
    I have been very involved with various forums over past years and the amount of times I have seen them explode, die and then rise from the flames is innumerable. Yes there was always talk of the ‘good ole days’ but there were new experiences to be had, new memories to be made, new posts to think about, comment on, participate in.

    It seems Twenty ‘resigning’ as it were is a big change on the blogging scene (bigger than I couldhave understood) and maybe the first one of this magnitude. Surely some good will come from it, a cleansing of sorts a re-organisation, something new and different and afterwards we’ll all wonder what people were getting their little panties in a knot about :D

  31. to be fair your post has attracted some big names in the irish blog world so I would not be embarrassed and for someone who has only blogged for 7 months you know more about the community then I do in 4 years.

    Maybe thats the thing 4 years ago for the first blog awards, these camp things were very few. The bloggies was the first chance I had of meeting folk, the following year I met more people then did photowalks etc then last year met even more people through blogging, photowalks, awards tweetups etc etc, is this what blogging has become, a huge social event, thats not really what I think a lot of the older gen bloggers out there wanted when they set up their blogs, it was about getting heard, now its all about when the next meetup is!

    (I think I have again answered another question of mine in this comment), this is not what blogging is about surely! I dont go to all the camps, I probably wont go to the web awards, I am going to the blog awards because thats where I meet the bloggers I have known for years and is generally the only place I meet them.

    I think you should get away from this community idea, and just enjoy the blogs you read, the people you meet and remember as SL has often said to me about blogging, “at the end of the day its only the internet” but is it for you?

  32. @Whoopsadaisy – thanks. Your comparison to forums is a good one. I agree I got my – boxers – in a knot, but there you go.

    @Mcawilliams – thanks again. I think I came to the entire blogging thing at an entirely skewed angle – I started with community and went from there, rather than the other way. While I’m not all about the meetups – I do have a genuine interest in what people write about and the stories they want to be heard – I have attended a lot of them and enjoyed them too.

    In answer to your question, I don’t know what blogging is about. I think that’s very evident from this post, if nowhere else.

    Is it “only the internet” for me? That’s an entire post in itself. It’s where I’ve built my experience, where I’ve met and made good friends, found jobs here and abroad and attended more events than I thought possible. In my head, it’s only one facet of my life but there’s also a reason someone gave me a t-shirt saying “blogito, ergo sum”…

  33. Glad I could give you a new topic to write about ;-P I am getting good at doing that these days.

    /me goes of mumbling about keeping my mouth shut keep your ideas to yourself!

  34. I didn’t realise so many blog celebrities read here…

    Enjoying all your work.

    ;-)

    And I always need a pint. Maybe I should blog about that?

    I don’t feel qualified enough to comment on all of this. I’m a great believer in one’s own personal opintion being as valid as any other’s/

    Some blog simply to write and express themselves (they are usually the most interesting), some of us for the community.

    It has changed, I’ve made genuine actual friends over the last year in particular through being involved. Maybe that’s what I like – I’m a shite blogger with little talent but at the same time I can get something from it socially.

    The blog meet-ups I’ve organised over the last 6 months have genuinely been some of the best social nights out I’ve had in years.

    I can see how some genuinely talented people who believe in blogging for bloggings sake might see the small social groupings that have developed as being contrary to the spirit or back slappery or unnecessary…

    I just think each to their own.

  35. [...] http://theblogpound.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/twenty/ [...]

  36. I agree Rick with the each to their own thing, but bad writer LMAO you know what I think of your writings mister, so dont talk shite.

    Anyhow Daragh I hope now you understand this is something that cant be answered, its how we are as people, we want different things.

    I know Rick is hoping to get into a debate with me but I aint gonna allow it, fucker never comments on my blog!

  37. You have a blog?

  38. Anyhow Daragh I hope now you understand this is something that cant be answered, its how we are as people, we want different things.

    To be honest I don’t think I even asked the right question. But thanks.

  39. sorry who are you again, dont recognise you in that picture!

  40. Darragh, i still think you’re a ride.

  41. Darragh, jesus! I think your frustration and attitude of defensiveness for the blogs/people you’re involved with daily is understandable. I don’t think there’s anything arrogant about it?

    Twenty’s, and John’s posts about stopping blogging were both quite understated, and didn’t point the finger at anyone, yet perhaps by being tactful, they’re made it all the clearer that they’re pointing the finger at individuals, at ‘new bloggers’.

    On one level this is fine, every originator is going to feel pushed out, or less interested in what people a decade younger have to say, as they rush in, all eager and youthful.

    On the other hand, what it clearly spells out as well is, new blogs are no good, new bloggers are boring, you’ve spoiled it all.

    Which is hard to take if you’re a new blogger, awash with enthusiasm for your new friends and newfound medium of communication.

    I don’t understand your animosity, Darragh and Alexia. I read Darragh’s post as a defense of bloggers today, and a declaration of all that he finds good about blogging. He feels a bit forsaken by Twenty. He’s agreeing with everyone because he wants their perspective, and it sounds to me like he’s trying to be accepting and respectful to me.

  42. Oops, I meant Damien and Alexia in that last paragraph. All you people with the same name, it’s too complicating for me…

  43. Also! One of the things Twenty said was making him want to quit was the fact that everyone agreed with him all the time.

  44. For some reason this makes me particularly sad. Sad that some of the people reading his blog may be put off now, as it doesn’t seem like fun; sad that his and other people’s experiences have a negative taint to them and sad that he chose to stop without giving some pointers and saying “Why don’t you…?”

    Sad that I didn’t write a point by point post about how to write a successful blog? After four years I don’t owe anybody anything. And to make the suggestion that I might put people off blogging is not only insulting to them, as I’m sure anyone who wants to blog will do so whether I’m doing it or not, but vastly overstating any perceived influence I might have over anything. I’m just one cunt who had a blog. That is it.

    I really don’t get why you’re so intent on discovering what blogging is, Darragh. It’s words, that’s it. You write, people read. End of story. There’s no great mystery. No secret meaning and I think it’s quite disingenous of you, as someone who purports to have knowledge about blogs, and speaks about them in public, to constantly go on with this hand-wringing ‘I just want to learn’ stuff. There’s nothing to learn. Just fucking blog.

    Twenty’s, and John’s posts about stopping blogging were both quite understated, and didn’t point the finger at anyone, yet perhaps by being tactful, they’re made it all the clearer that they’re pointing the finger at individuals, at ‘new bloggers’.

    On one level this is fine, every originator is going to feel pushed out, or less interested in what people a decade younger have to say, as they rush in, all eager and youthful.

    On the other hand, what it clearly spells out as well is, new blogs are no good, new bloggers are boring, you’ve spoiled it all.

    In no way did I stop blogging because of anyone else’s blog. But at the same time I do not have (from a blog point of view) the slightest thing in common with this trend of personal exposure and mawkishness that has proliferated on Irish blogs over the last little while.

    As I said in my post people can write what they want and fair play to them but at times it seems to me like people are giving too much of themselves just so they can rack up the comments and the pingbacks. It’s something I’d associate with kids that use Bebo, this willingness to share every single bit of their lives with no apparent desire for privacy. To me that’s not a maturation of the blogging scene, it’s a youngining (if you’ll accept my addition to the lexicon).

    I don’t get it. I just do not get it on any level. As well as that there was more actual writing ‘in the old days’, so to speak. More people being creative with language and words and stories whereas now it just seems to be podcamp this or sentimental load of shite that.

    What used to be great were the arguments, the debate, the difference of opinion but now it seems hardly anybody is willing to, or has the balls to, disagree with anyone about anything.

    There’s little or no debate so how are people’s opinions or outlooks going to be challenged? That the biggest debate I’ve seen in ages revolves around the fact that I’ve stopped blogging says it all. I’m not that fucking important.

    So while new bloggers haven’t spoiled anything, as they enjoy what they do and good luck to them for it, they have caused a shift in Irish blogging. It’s not a criticism, just a fact. And when they give up blogging some time in the future they may find the same thing happening to them.

  45. Yup, that cleared that up.

    Fair points too.

    I’m just off to write about how much it’s upset me.

  46. That’s a lot of comments that I need to reply to in one fell swoop:

    Technically I myself am very new in the Irish blogging community, but not for blogging in general. It was at least a year, possibly more since I started my blog until I found the Irish community.

    And yes, I do have to say that there is a small amount of natural segregation in the community. There are groups of bloggers who primarily read and comment on other blogs in that group. I’ve seen that happening. I also see blogrolls on other blogs and ask myself “Who the heck is that?”. There are so many of us out there right now, it’s hard to keep track of them all.

    Which also brings me to another point, keeping track of new blogs/bloggers. Over time, I understand more and more each blogger and what their blog is about. At first I didn’t read/subscribe to many blogs, but now I have many feeds in my feed reader. Adding a new blog isn’t as simple as clicking the “Add feed” button. At first I generally don’t know what to expect from the new blog, and it usually takes a week or two of regular posts, before I can understand what is going on. And as I add more and more, it will take even longer to understand each new blog, eventually going to the point where it’s worthless trying to understand…

    I myself know that although I may be in the community, I’m in the group that are in the corner of the room, which barely sees the light of day. I know that I probably won’t “graduate” from my corner, and will likely at some point in the future, be more famous in the “gamer” blog community, but until then it’s just a case of trying to find somewhere to fit in.

    And since I feel I’m going off on a tangent here, I’m going to end this comment.

  47. I reckon Darragh might actually BE Twenty. I’ve certainly never seen the both of you in the same room together. Honestly, never.

    There’s been more than enough self-important people throwing their opinions around as though they have so much more currency than anyone else’s so I don’t want to say too much, but I feel I have to say something.
    I would say though that Twenty went out in his own way and his own voice and I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I’d have been a little gutted if he’d done it with some kind of a patronising ‘How to’ post.
    I suspect, Darragh, that you were a little like me in feeling slightly taken aback by the suggestion that new bloggers are putting him off. There was definitely a momentary feeling of ‘What , does he mean me?’
    But of course he fucking didn’t, I doubt he really had any one person I mind. I think the discernible difference between bloggers a few years ago and bloggers now is that the first ones to do it here really took it seriously, spent a lot of time at it and tended not to mince their words. There are plenty still like that, and plenty of newbies starting up in that vein. And then there are those who do this as a hobby: they don’t always get a chance to post as often as they’d like, they’re not necessarily particularly politically-aware, they sometimes run out of ideas and just stick up Youtube videos. I include myself in this group and am not particularly proud of it. I wanted to do a little more and have found myself wanting. But fuck it guys, you don’t own the blogosphere. I haven’t stopped watching football even though Roman Abramovich has largely turned it to shite and I don’t think anyone would really leave blogging because they don’t like many of its contributors. Room for everyone, I’d say.

    Twenty, I don’t really believe for a minute that you will leave blogging completely, you’ll just do it in different places under different monikers. And I imagine your abrupt exit will help you sell more books, I honestly hope it does.

    And Damien, a man who now largely bases his blog on linking to other people’s blogs shouldn’t really go talking about coat-tailing. I wouldn’t really want to get into a slanging match but fuck it, you started this one and you have done before too.
    So, given this is all in the name of Twenty anyway, Damo, you’re a cunt.

  48. now largely bases his blog on linking to other people’s blogs shouldn’t really go talking about coat-tailing.

    Now? I’ve not changed my blogging style in years.

  49. Jesus…

    Words here like ‘blogging celebrity’ are making my head spin.

    I was reading through the comments wondering what twenty would be saying if he read it, and lo and behold he pops up with pretty much what I thought – he used to write a blog, now he’s stopped.

    He was bloody good at it, so it’s a shame, but whats the drama for?

    I could go on and on and on.

    (Incidentally before anyone wails about me kissing his backside, I like blogging now for the very reason he doesn’t, I love the personal nature of it, that’s what I write about, that’s the stuff I prefer to read)

  50. Damien – Oh OK, they told me you used to write stuff.

  51. they told me

    Powerful stuff.

  52. You want me to name who ‘they’ are? I can do, but they might be interested in winning one of your awards. I’m not. I never visited your blog until I started doing my own. And I’m far too lazy to scroll back through the years so I relied on the testimony of others.

    See, I’ve seen your obnoxiousness at work before and not passed comment. Darragh has spoke highly of you to me, and tells me what a nice fella you are. I can only assume you don’t carry on this way in person then. He is far too much of a gentleman to give you the ‘fuck off’ you deserve, and have done for a long while from what I can make out. Normally I would be too. But you’ve caught me on a bad fucking day Damien.

    Now, it’s a little degrading to bicker in a public forum really so if there’s anything else you want to say then you can email it to me.

    thatsnotfunny.andy@gmail.com

  53. If people are afraid to say what they think because of a desire to win awards then they should really step back have a good think about that.

    It’s only words on a screen at the end of the day.

  54. [...] | Tags: blogging, music, self important rambles In the midst of all the kerfuffle over at the blogpound , I got to thinking about blogging and its purpose. Well that was after trailing off on thoughts [...]

  55. I’m *so* getting popcorn for Part Two tomorrow. This is better than Fair City!

  56. Bollocks, didn’t mean to have a pingback on this post. Was trying to blog about away from all the ‘big boys’ heh….

  57. And about as meaningful.

  58. Is it offside here to possibly nominate this for blog post of the month?

    … um nevermind…

    [backs out silently]

  59. [...] The latest buzz in the Irish blog scene is the news that Twenty Major took off his blogging socks to concentrate on other, possibly more lucrative, things to do with his time.  It sparked off a very interesting and thoughtful post by Darragh Doyle over at The Blog Pound. [...]

  60. This is shite.

    Twenty will make a comeback, they all do. Tina Turner is having another one this year!!!

    And if he doesn’t, so what? He said it himself, he was just a man with a blog, and no matter how good he or we are or were, that’s what it boils down to.

    I think it’s hilarious to have such a debate over someone deciding not to push the publish button anymore, if this were a comic forum complaining about Stan Lee’s retirement we might look at it as nerds who take themselves and their hobby way too seriously.

    Yes, Twenty was good, great even. But new blogs pop up everyday that are as good, some even better and if it takes others longer to get there, at least they’re in the making and we should enjoy watching others and ourselves grow and find our own voice instead of wondering “What will happen now?”.

    Move on.

    As flattering as it might be to have the country’s bloggers debate and ponder over a decision you made, chances are he’s tired of it by now. And having never met the man once I can bet getting this kind of mileage out of it wasn’t his intention either.

    I’ll bet this comment gets lost at the end of a days back and forward, and our collective readers are probably as bored as I am. I’m off to blog.

  61. I have said this before but in a very different place and I echo my friend Twenty – this is only the internet, all.

    I have nothing but respect, love and friendship for everyone in this thread and you know they’re not empty words coming from me, so my two cents are simple.

    I have no intention of telling anyone to feck off, calm down or take their argument elsewhere, I relish a good old fashioned bit of controversy actually, but I think calmer heads may win the day tomorrow.

    Not that I’m not rubbing my hands together at the increased readership at the moment you understand.

    Now if only we all could get as agitated at how we’re all going to be living in Mad Max 3 in a few weeks after the global financial system implodes… ;)

  62. [...] David O’Doherty gig in Vicar Street and I’ve been catching up on the affairs over in The Blog Pound. It’s a lively, if somewhat pointless debate spurred on by a rant from my best friend Mr [...]

  63. There’s nothing like a lively but somewhat pointless debate, eh! Keep it up, I say!

  64. Fair play Twenty for coming on here and explaining a lot better then I did what I was attempting to say.

    /me heads back to school to learn to talk english best and better writing!!!

  65. i usually don’t like blog posts about blogging, but i have to say, i loooooove this. please don’t stop :)

  66. Hello all and thanks for visiting/reading/commenting on a rant that I didn’t expect to have as much reaction.

    To try and respond to the comments aimed at me:

    Darragh, i still think you’re a ride.

    Ahh Andrew, thanks. Nicest thing anyone said to me yesterday! ;)

    I think your frustration and attitude of defensiveness for the blogs/people you’re involved with daily is understandable.

    Jo, thank you for this and for your entire comment. While I am a fan of people sitting down to share their stories, I think I may have come across much too preoccupied with Twenty leaving, when in fact it’s shouldn’t have been the focus at all. (Sorry Twenty).

    I find it interesting that there’s so many diverse people blogging, each for their own reasons, and that the fact they write is enough to instil a sense of community in some of them, a sense of “I do this, you do that. Let’s talk”. As I said, it’s become a way to cut through the silence, to interact with people we otherwise would never have heard of.

    I find it more interesting that other people seem to have a problem with this. Almost every event or initiative to foster this sense of shared pride in what we do has been open to criticism, whether it’s the Blog Awards, the Blog Post of the Month, sharing links, conversations on Twitter, blogrolls and so on.

    It seems as blogging in Ireland has developed and people have gotten to know each other, a sense of anonymity and “individual personality” is perceived to have fallen a bit by the wayside, with the thought that it’s now more about the backslapping, the obligatory add to the blogroll, the obligatory comments, the talking about each other and the (to paraphrase Twenty) mawkishness and sentimentality where people are giving too much of themselves just so they can rack up the comments and the pingbacks. People don’t disagree with each other, the community has become younger, moving maybe from sharing photos on bebo to blogs and yes, the writing style seems to have changed.

    Catherine’s comment above that she’d “value a submission from a blogger who’s not popped their head up in comments or links on other blogs – for whatever reason – as much as I would a submission from a well-known blogger” is, to me, one of the most telling statements on here. It seems to indicate that there’s distinct types emerging – that there’s a marked difference between those who blog “alone” [my terminology/phraseology here is dire, please bear with me] and those who link/comment/get linked to. It strongly reminds me of this post after the blog awards. Why does the thought that if you don’t comment/link/blogroll/agree that you’re not a “good” blogger or that those who are “well known” will somehow look down on you or not regard you as worth recognition seem to consistently pervade in certain circles? As Twenty said “just fucking blog” and I, for one, don’t really care what people blog about, my interest is that they blog at all, whether that’s news, views, interviews or pretty pictures.

    Twenty quite rightly took me up on that maudlin paragraph of me being “sad” that he left and I really wish I’d deleted it before I published. I never intended this post to read as “anti-Twenty” or to question/debate his reasons for leaving. That was laid out clearly in his goodbye post and while I’ll miss the madness (as I said on his post and my blog) I wish him the very best.

    @Twenty, I know you’re just one guy who has a blog, same as I am, same as most people. But you were respected, you will be missed and you did have an influence, in that look how your departure was greeted elsewhere. If I (and I’m being careful to emphasise here that it’s purely me) had come across your post having not blogged before, or come to it from RTE for example, I think though I’d also question the change in blogging. That’s why I’m appreciative and grateful for you taking the time to come here and respond.

    I really don’t get why you’re so intent on discovering what blogging is

    Simply this Twenty – I want to be good at it. My definition of good? Well I’d like at least one of the 8 people who read me to leave my blog with a smile, to look at things a slightly different way, to find something interesting, whether that be a memory sparked, a new song to listen to or a side of a person they haven’t seen before. Why? Because I can and because that’s what I get from other blogs. A phrase of mine has become “If I can do it, anyone can” but equally, if others are doing it, why shouldn’t I? It’s purely personal, it’s not for recognition or hits or, as you once suggested, link baiting, it’s just this is something that I really enjoy. Like anything I enjoy and want to be good at, I learn about it. I study it and I make an effort to improve what I do. This may be an answer to your comment:

    I think it’s quite disingenous of you, as someone who purports to have knowledge about blogs, and speaks about them in public, to constantly go on with this hand-wringing ‘I just want to learn’ stuff.

    but I’d personally find it far more disingenuous of me to claim to be some type of “expert” or to have extra knowledge. I don’t. I still feel there’s a large area of technical know-how and some of blogging etiquette (whatever that may be) to learn about.

    My advice to people who want to blog, and this may surprise you, sir, is just to blog. Exactly what you said above. Blog about what you’re interested in, do it for yourself, if you can write an email you can write a blog. My desire to “learn” is more based on my personal blogging – how can I be better, how can I make more of what I want to write about. I’m rarely one to point at a problem and not suggest a solution. That’s just the way I am. I’m not trying to suggest that anyone else should be the same.

    I do though have a strong belief in the “support” network that the Irish blogging community provides. Fine, it may not be as developed as elsewhere and there may be a “utilitarian lack of understanding of the benefits of blogging” according to some, but does that mean that we shouldn’t promote it either? Whatever about friendship, there’s sound business advice, potential business partnerships, good charity initiatives and learning aplenty to be derived from the people involved who do like the idea of being involved and using it to their advantage. If “it” could make at least one positive difference, wouldn’t it be great if we could help make that happen? That’s why there are bar- and creative- and podcamps. That’s why there’s a conference on about social media activism tomorrow. That’s why *I’m* interested.

    In your response to Jo’s comment, you remark on how

    … there was more actual writing ‘in the old days’, so to speak. More people being creative with language and words and stories …

    This also is something I see appearing the odd time. That somehow unless a blog post uses a certain standard of language, a play with words or the less common words of the dictionary that it’s somehow not as good as the ones who do. People study creative writing for years to learn how to craft words like this and while I have the utmost respect for the writers who can do so, I also don’t see how a post passionately but simply written is any the less important. I am not suggesting that this is what you’re implying here, it’s just a comment I felt worth making. Yes, it would be great to see people being creative, but I think it’s more important that they feel they have a voice at all, a voice that someone wants to listen to.

    There’s little or no debate so how are people’s opinions or outlooks going to be challenged?

    Maybe that is a far better question to be dealt with and I reckon you’ll see far more of this in your new forum, where it seems to naturally lie for some. Maybe blogs aren’t the place for it. And good luck with that too. :)

    …until then it’s just a case of trying to find somewhere to fit in.

    @TheChrisD – thanks for your input. I think in some ways it seems we’re all just trying to find somewhere to fit in.

    Your points bring up many of my own questions, especially relating to finding new bloggers. Sam made some great suggestions here which for me were necessary as I tend to be a see-and-click web user. I would imagine that explains the amount of posts linking to other blogs. It’s that sharing what we found. All I can say is what’s been repeated time and time again – if you enjoy it, do it.

    I reckon Darragh might actually BE Twenty. I’ve certainly never seen the both of you in the same room together.

    Andrew, after seeing the female reaction to said gentleman at the Blog Awards, I can only say… if only… :P

    suspect, Darragh, that you were a little like me in feeling slightly taken aback by the suggestion that new bloggers are putting him off.

    Indeed. And he’s explained why, and that’s that. I didn’t however for a second take it personally.

    I think the discernible difference between bloggers a few years ago and bloggers now is that the first ones to do it here really took it seriously, spent a lot of time at it and tended not to mince their words.

    That’s a very good point. Now that there seems to be such a diverse range of blogs and bloggers, it has become much more difficult to say “this is a blog” or, as Darren has quite rightly pointed out, to say “this is what a blog is about”. We have to take into account the advances in blogging platforms, embedding, more content, higher internet speed and all that too.

    Thanks again for your comments. We may discuss over a pint some time.

    Words here like ‘blogging celebrity’ are making my head spin.

    @Xbox4NappyRash that again was never my intention to bring up, but since you have, I think it’s worth pointing out that I’ve never met anyone who thinks of themself as a blogging celebrity, and I’ve been lucky enough to meet a lot of bloggers. Not Damien, not Twenty, not anyone. Sam said “it’s possible that the more talk there is of an Irish blogosphere, the more inward-looking the whole thing gets.” and that’s something I think that I should try and understand more.

    I like blogging now for the very reason he doesn’t, I love the personal nature of it, that’s what I write about, that’s the stuff I prefer to read

    Again, it’s great to have so many views, such different tastes and that’s what sustains the conversations.

    This is shite.

    Ahh Maxi, thank you. It’s certainly not the way I thought it would be anyway!

    There’s nothing like a lively but somewhat pointless debate

    and Jo, this is certainly that!

    i usually don’t like blog posts about blogging, but i have to say, i loooooove this. please don’t stop :)

    @Tina – hiya and thanks for the comment. Glad it amused you, just not sure what else I can add to the “debate”.

    Thank you everyone for your input. I can only assume you found something here to amuse/annoy/interest you and it’s great you chose to share that with us, whether here or on your own blog.

    For me this post has been an eye-opener in a number of ways. Rant though it was, it’s highlighted a few things or people I’ve been paying far too much attention to while missing the big picture. I hope everyone is enjoying what they do, I trust no one has hard feelings about me having this rant – “it’s only the internet after all” – oh and Darren, thanks for the pint. Needed and appreciated.

    Now, I’m off to update a certain post. And then heading out into the sunshine. And then I’ll read a few more blogs, just for the laugh. :D

  67. Darragh:

    I didn’t mean you were shite, just the amount of debate over the whole thing.

  68. Maxi, I didn’t think you said I was shite – I knew what you meant. But thanks anyway.

  69. Desolation, Day 4

  70. >>There’s little or no debate so how are people’s opinions or outlooks going to be challenged?

    >Maybe that is a far better question to be dealt with and I reckon you’ll see far more of this in your new forum, where it seems to naturally lie for some. Maybe blogs aren’t the place for it. And good luck with that too. :)

    Blogs aren’t a place to challenge/ debate or blogs aren’t a place to discuss this? Why not? Is the instinct not the same to discuss this?

    Are we not all engaging in a conversation here? Isn’t that what blogging is about? Free speech, right. Blog, comment. Challenge, respond. Or am I living in some alternate reality?

    To be honest, I’m lost with the amount of lengthy comments on this post. And I’m disappointed with some of the mob instincts displayed here too. Voices are voices. Even if you disagree with them. That’s what maturity is all about. Read, listen and learn – even if opinions expressed are contrary to yours. And yes, you do have the right of reply, just like they do.

    Some of the rhetoric here reads like a purge (imho) instead of reasoned thought. I agree with a lot that Damien and Twenty have said, but that doesn’t matter. The fact is that a lot of bull has been written and backs slapped. And sure once everyone is happy, sure that’s dandy.

  71. Alexia, thanks for the comment. Though it’s pedantic I feel it’s fair to say I said “Maybe blogs aren’t the place for it.” and from Twenty’s points about the change he’s seen, it seems there isn’t the same impetus to debate as there once was. I’m not suggesting/advocating anything other than “maybe”.

    I for one am unsure how to respond in a practical way to the rest of your comment that will say anything I haven’t already posted or commented. Blogs are blogs. People are people. We do what we can. What else is there?

  72. and meaningless platitudes are meaningless platitudes. Some people talk a lot but say so little.

  73. @john – I take it you’ve seen my other blog, so. ;-)

  74. Lads, Gimme has said it all, game over.

    :-)

    Best post on the whole deely…

  75. As Twenty said “It’s words, that’s it. You write, people read. End of story.” You express yourself and people listen or they don’t. That is all there is and all there should be to it. Twenty is evidently going to continue to express itself just not using blogging anymore. So what. Shouldn’t it be the idea or the content that matters not the medium?

    And there is no community. There are certainly people who are friendly with one another and some are doubtless friends but blogging is a medium not a community. I don’t call my friends ‘my off-line verbal community’.

  76. Always quit when you’re ahead, it’s law isn’t it? Well maybe not for Bertie, but you know what I mean.

    I like Twenty, I even contributed to his fag fund and bought the book, but you know, I can’t trust anyone who says ‘never again’, if you quit, you quit, you just say ‘goodbye, nice knowing you’ and GO.

    I always though blogging was sad, but then I was reading the wrong ones, it’s a great way to keep in touch, find new people, and to remind yourself that your’re crap at prose. Anyway, he will be missed, until someone else comes along.

  77. I had to laugh at Twenty’s comment Darragh, because I too do not get the fascination you have with blogging and the resulting community. I liken it to going to museums with himself and his relatives. Fucking EVERY LITTLE THING is so GODDAMN interesting and it drives me insane. I see, I absorb, I move on. So I don’t go to museums with them any more. Same goes for you, it’s your thing, wouldn’t be for me, but whatever.

    I get a lot out of blogging and have met and continue to meet some incredible people. I’ve read and enjoyed Twenty’s blog for a long time. I read his post the other day and thought it was a bummer. I left a comment thanking him for the laughs and I moved on. Twenty’s blog (and book) to me were sheer entertainment. I didn’t read them for the stellar writing or witty quips, but to be entertained. It wasn’t literature, it was funny and entertaining. I think the same can be said of many blogs.

    I hate when we get into all this philosophical wax lyrical state of blogging mumbo jumbo.

    I liken blogging to a pub conversation. Someone yapping about themselves in a pub. You either listen and engage or you move on. You don’t critique or try to analyse or categorise him. You listen if you want you don’t if you don’t.

    I think Gimme’s post is brilliant and Rick may quite well be right, but you know me, I had to add my two cents! :P

  78. Just to pipe up(I know, shut up boy…), I wasn’t referring to the original post when I mention ‘celebrities’, it was in the comments somewhere.

    But Jesus you’re some shit stirrer….

    ;0)

  79. fuck. The pain in me head from spending the last hour reading all this shite on the tiny screen on my phone. My heads in bits. That’s what curiosity gets me.

    Nothing new to add to the debate.

  80. I am completely new to blogging and all of this seems like nerdy bullshit. The dude is just having a rant. Why is everyone picking on him?

    I didn’t even know who Twenty Major was until my cousin just told me. What’s the big deal? He stopped blogging and gave out about the current state of the “Blogosphere”. Fair enoguh. Darr gave his own rant about it. Fair enough. I don’t see why people are attacking and resorting to personal comments about being arrogant and selfish. Nerdy bullshit.

  81. Woweeeeeeeeeeeee – if only every one felt so much about planting spring bulbs in the garden – me thinks a post on geotropism might get those juices flowing….?

    I’d like to refer to darraghs point [somewhere in there??!] at which alcoholic beverages where mentioned…. here’s to being illogic and thinking outside the box!
    bulaidh bós mate
    peter

    ps. whoop!

  82. I’ve a question for you Peter – I planted some hyacinths as per instructions, and they’re up already.

    What to do about that? Should I hold off planting other things?

  83. hyacinths always make me smile – the first bulb i ever grew. If it up – it ups! go with the flow.

    Instructions are generally based on an average mean temperature but this quote pretty much explains horticulture and gardening in my opinion… newcomer bit aside!
    ‘It is natural that the newcomer, perhaps accustomed to the fixed routine of other pursuits, may expect rules which, if followed, will give certain definite results, but these I cannot give, for climate, soil, aspect, shelter, and many other connected factors vary widely, so that an exact formula would be useless.’
    from The Flower Garden by E.R. Jane, 1952

  84. I am very much approving of this thread mutating into a Gardener’s Hour with Peter. Carry on.

  85. High five for flowers!

  86. Thanks Peter! If only I was independently wealthy, I would employ you as my gardener, or even blog-gardener.

  87. Ok, I gotta be honest here.

    I never really understood the hype over Twenty’s blog. It seemed to me that the commenters generally were just battling for the smuttiest and cuntiest reply from the God himself. Twenty never once replied to any of my comments and in my view, that’s just fucking rude.

    I used to give a shit, I used to wonder why he never visited my site and never added me to his roll, but I grew up since the start and got over it, I assumed that he was one of those blogs that I just couldn’t break into and so in that respect it failed me.

    “But at the same time I do not have (from a blog point of view) the slightest thing in common with this trend of personal exposure and mawkishness that has proliferated on Irish blogs over the last little while.

    As I said in my post people can write what they want and fair play to them but at times it seems to me like people are giving too much of themselves just so they can rack up the comments and the pingbacks. It’s something I’d associate with kids that use Bebo, this willingness to share every single bit of their lives with no apparent desire for privacy.”

    Mr. Major, most sincerely, Fuck. That. Mawkishness? Just ’cause you chose to hide behind a character, doesn’t mean the rest of us should be ashamed of our lives. I write personal stuff because I’m heartily sick and tired of the masks people wear in everyday life. Blogs show you the layer underneath, a layer I can identify with. It’s a positive thing and bears absolutely FUCK ALL resemblance to Bebo. I’m proud of who I am, so screw you!

    You’re talking out of yer hole on that score, but I sympathise with the rest. There are shit loads of blogs out there nowadays, but competition is good, and it makes for pleasant surprises. You’re a twat for thinking it’s shallow.

    I bought your book and I loved it, it was like bubble-gum. I read it twice, it’s killed many a boring hour on the ranks. I can’t wait for the next one to come out, but I get the feeling that if you opened up, you’ve got the potential for a seriously excellent read. What’s wrong with you?

    Stop writing about rimming and pen something real.

  88. @K8 ……..and back to garden hour with peter!

    @someone living: approval very much appreciated… mucho gusto ‘agus’ el gusto is mio ;)

    @raprtureponies re high five *nods head and starts to sing S Club 7 songs*

    slán go foill
    peter

  89. :) ) Hyacinths rule!

  90. *nods head [to bob dylan like a rolling stone] in agreement ……good man yerself ;)

  91. @jo – hey just saw your comment… hope you didn’t think i was ignoring you there – i’ll take that as a compliment?! [thank you!]. rumour has it i’m very cheap – next time you have a tenner! but then you can’t believe everything you hear these days.

    slán agus beannacht
    peter

  92. I had flowers once and then i went to the doctors and he gave me some tablets and a talc and it cleared it all up just like he promised. At least i think it was called flowers. That or aids.

  93. Apologies, replace ‘flowers’ with kidney infection. yes yes.

  94. Mr. Major, most sincerely, Fuck. That. Mawkishness? Just ’cause you chose to hide behind a character, doesn’t mean the rest of us should be ashamed of our lives. I write personal stuff because I’m heartily sick and tired of the masks people wear in everyday life.

    I’m not saying anyone should be ashamed. What I should have made clear was the difference between stuff that is real and personal and the stuff that I feel is contrived, and I think a lot of it is contrived.

    I read your piece that won the award and it’s so far removed in quality from most of the stuff out there. I mean that in a good way.

    But why did you write it? Because it meant something, not because you were trying to win an award, which, as someone pointed out above, appears to be a major motivation for some people. That motivation, for me at least, is reflected in the quality of the output.

    Apologies for not answering comments but I never was one of those people that answered each comment individually. I just kind of took part in the conversation in the comments as anyone else did. It was like that from the start.

    And I’ve stopped writing about rimming. It’s a tough time for me at the moment. I loved writing about rimming.

  95. @ Peter – I don’t know who you are and I know nothing about gardening but I want in on the mutation so …. quickly forming some random gardening related question ….. why do lilies smell so bad? Am I right in thinking they’re a fabled as nice smelling flower in competition with the rose, but they’re minging. Nothing worse than a room full of lily smell.

  96. You replied! I’m beside myself :) Stupidly so but still… thanks. Awards are transient things, but it’s scary when the alpha dude backs down… you’ve thrown things wide open I fear, so good luck with that.

    I just hope you don’t give up – I can live with the rimming.

  97. So many comments about rimming, so little time…

  98. Mop up needed in aisle 8….

  99. Just got pinged me on Gmail:

    *Milan: What’s rimming?*

    Genius.

  100. @milanadenauer

    why do lilies smell so bad…
    the liliacae family comprises over 100 species of 9 different divisions grown from bulbous perennials and are grown ‘for their showy, sometimes very fragrant flowers.’

    re: the rose… or rosa of the rosaceae family is a genus of over 150 species grown as perennial shrubs mainly. ‘Roses are grown for their attractive, often very fragrant flowers’.

    The reality is they are two entirely different plants grown for exactly the same reason. The 2nd reality is fragrant can often have an alternate scent. Often enough one can find that it is the prettier flower has the littlest scent [or even the worst] alternately it can often be the cheapest flower….

    that said the lilly is has a quicker turnover, requires less maintenance and labour etc and is therefore also a lot less expensive – i too know know nothing of you but if the girl/ boy/ friend buy you lillies – you can call ‘em cheapy mc cheapersons! and explain roses would be better the next time.

    As a by the way – lillies decompose a lot quicker than the rose [and in water] just give ‘em about an inch to cover the base of the stems and top up – after that – its’s ambi-pur time mate!

    Elvis has left the building!
    It’s garden time

  101. SL – I can’t believe you’ve ratted on me. Morto. Ok I’m not up on my gay s-x terminology. Had to google it cause SL wouldn’t tell me.

  102. Ha! He wouldn’t tell you! How coy :)

  103. @ Peter – thanks for that.

  104. [...] was a bit of a fuss when Twenty chucked in the towel.  I didn’t join in the debate, because I felt I had nothing [...]

  105. [...] 17, 2008 at 12:11 am (Uncategorized) (Blogosphere, Evolution) There has been much introspection, finger wagging and navel gazing of late in the so-called blogosphere (I fucking hate that term!). [...]

  106. Deeeeeeeeeear lord. I’d rather grab a sleeping dog by his wily snoot than do this but here goes.

    I’m back home. Just left the bar. The last of us are scattered like covey bout the Square, yeah, the one in Intruder in the Dust, in black and white. That one. The cast of characters has changed, last night two less, but they all smell the same. Beer, yaaager, burping scotch. Blue laws closed us down, church is coming, God runs us all out. Writers writers writers on every post.

    (Ah, post, ha. I meant the one with lights and bugs. Lots a’ bugs—lots a’ writers down South.)

    Whoa. I felt right at home there for a bit. Writers with the hot breath of success slamming their hands, screaming ‘crap crap’ in every direction. No no no, not all y’all, no, just a thread, a high hint, that ran through it all, triggering me back home. God, (she slides into her only slightly insipid possibly objectionably sentimental’ity) I ‘didn’t write’ for years, hiding myself from the sharp teeth of Writers that write. I scribbled alone in the dark, burned pages, squeezed tomatoes like a smiling shopper, fanned flies, pretending I didn’t write.

    Then, one day, I heard a voice. It came as a scrape of a shovel on the sidewalk, or was it a trowel on a rock, moving bulbs. The voice spoke with a certain certainty, that’s for sure. There (the ‘there’ stretched out long, kinda like God or Cowboy Maloney, he sells cars in a striped suit) It said ‘Theeeeeeere’ …….. like that. Theeeeeeere issssss (the ‘is’ was stretched too now, must be God) Theeeeere isssssssssss rooooom in the world………. for aaaall voices. ! He got it all out. Imagine that I said. I got in my car and pointed it west just to get where I could breathe. Writers can cause a big arse tight breathing space, I find. I didn’t stop driving till I got cross the Mississippi, then even wester, to an island hanging on the edge of the continent. I can write now.

    I write. I am a writer. I have no blog. I’m new here. Daaaays new. I feel welcomed. I feel heard. I pick the blogs I like, I go, oh dear, to the ones I don’t. I want to learn the medium. I want to read writing, yes. I want to read writing that plays and is turning words, phrases, concepts within a code, twists me and entertains with a yarn and…… a snap. And. I want to read writing that is personal. I want to read writing of the heart that is so pure that the fingers of the speaker are shaking as the ink hits the blogoshpere. I want Voice in all its forms and transmutations and fractalizations. I love Truth. Truth is the sex that moves the Universe.

    I also want to read writing that shows me how to use E6000 glue to make sure that dang cateyed marble stays put on my art. (and how to plant bulbs.) And. I read ranting at times. (Braved Mr. Maxi Cane just the other day and learned I could stand in the very self same room with the C word and not perish. I’ll go back.)

    An outsider looking in. My lord. What a piece taken as a whole, this post, comments, all. What a spontaneous combustion of creativity ! It ought to be taken in total and put on the APOD at NASA ! I’m out and unknowing of the Irish blog scene issue as issue, I don’t know. But it seems Darr merely played his part, for which he has an uncanny knack, in creating just what neeeds to happen and be born. Albeit what he says he didn’t mean to create, yet, what was rumbling underneath all along. He was only the pointer headed on a hike. What you’ve struck it seems to me is gold in hot lava and will manifest in ways yet to be realized. That is what creativity begets, after all, all new tissue come forth. What an Irish dance you all just did, I’d say !! In whole, brilliant! The lilies might stink but my oh my what beauty !

    (I pause here momentarily to say. Darr, believe you me, community’s getting created, the tracks are being laid with a hot chant. Only here days, me, and I bout lost it several times, wanting to come get my little Southern white trash arse jumped in to a protecting of my …… protector. Yes, you. Yes, you do protect me and others who are fresh off the notknowing of this world. I’ve learned, from you, how to walk ‘right in’ to a country that can be quite exclusive by the mere quantum speed it travels—ie– the ‘afterall it’s only the internet’ internet.)

    God, I’m a bit wordy here, but this time, who the feck ain’t, lolol. I live live live and breathe ‘nothing is random’ and I gotta tell ya, me showing up just days before ‘this’ is fine and wild hooha to me! I’ll dream like bats and say I’m sorry tomorrow. Twenty, you got your debate, keep going and God bless ya on what you’ve done and on where you’re headed. Darr, you got your learning, which will unfold like fractals, (over pints no doubt) , we got bulbs planted, and, god, what else did we get done, lol.

    The most priceless priceless comment to me on the whole fecking post was Milan’s. “Fuck. The pain in me head from spending the last hour reading all this shite on the tiny screen on my phone.” LOLOL OMG, thank you Milan ………..

  107. [...] http://theblogpound.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/twenty [...]

  108. [...] http://theblogpound.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/twenty [...]


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